One of my passions is Figure Skating...not really but just go with it and the thing that has always intriged me was the scoring system. There is so much discretion involved in marking someone and so the judges are given so much power to decide who did what best. It really does come down to perspective and judgement of the person viewing the event and sometimes that isn't fair for the athletes. In speed skating there is a clock, a very accurate clock that determines the winner and it is hard to dispute who wins. In figure skating it is a series of judges and to me that makes not much sense. This isn't the first time that judges have been bought for votes but nonetheless it does put a big asterisk beside the winner.
1) Do you think events with judges should be thrown out of the games?
2) How can the event be cleaned up from judge tampering?
3) How would you feel if you put your heart and soul into an event to find out the best you can do is second because the judge has something against you?
4) Does this happen anywhere else?
http://www.thestar.com/sports/sochi2014/figureskating/2014/02/08/sochi_olympics_ice_dance_fix_talk_throws_virtue_moir_for_loop_dimanno.html
As an accomplished pianist that has been in many competitions, I feel as though I can relate to this article and give my opinion and some knowledge on the matter. So this is my post.....
ReplyDeleteBasically what I got from this article, was from one paragraph that sums up what basically happened which I took from the article where it says
"L’Equipe quotes an unidentified “senior” Russian coach claiming Russian and American judges came to Sochi with a quid pro quo scheme — a “proposed barter” — whereby each would help the other. The reciprocal arrangement allegedly was crafted to assure Davis and White would win a first-ever gold for the U.S. in ice dance, while the Russians would be assured of gold in the inaugural team event."
This was giving the other figure skaters an unfair judgment and the winners an unfair advantage. Apparently as I read later in the article this has apparently going on for many years. Which is clearly not right.
However I do not think that events with judges should be removed all together. Sadly unlike speed skating, figure skaters can not be given medals or win based on a stop watch that is completely accurate and not biased. A stop watch can not give healthy and positive constrictive criticism. I think that if we want to solve the problem, if you hear about a judge trying to swindle or sneak around they are cut, and done from judging any further. I think to clean up from judge tampering they need to have strict guidelines, and close watch on them.
Now were I can relate comes into the picture. I have competed in my share of competitions and yes things can get a bit nasty, even hen ts just piano. But as a person entering the competitions my piano teacher has always told me the following
"Now you may not win, come in first place or in any place at all. But I want you to go, knowing that you tried your hardest, I want you to go to have fun, and to learn."
There has been plenty of times where in fact I didn't win, some of the times simply because the judge didn't like the certain composer etc. But getting criticism is one of the best things that a performer/artist can get. The goal is to try hard, learn and enjoy yourself. Winning shouldn't always be the main priority. Yes it sucks if someone doesn't like something you worked hard on but really lets use an example. If you were a judge and you didn't like the country music genre and someone came to you singing country music of course you aren't particularly going to enjoy the song. So each has their own opinion, and that's that.
Is this your post? What about week 1? Good job though relating personally is always a good choice.
ReplyDeleteyes this was my post, in my introduction to my post wrote "so this is my post..." my mistake though I should have put it at the very beginning, I will make sure to make it more clear for my next post, sorry about that!
DeleteThis is my weekly post I never thought about how figure skating would be a hard sport to score because it is sort of a matter of opinion and perspective, one judge could think they deserved 2 points more while another judge could say otherwise. However, I don't believe that this kind of sport should be taken out of the Olympics because it has been in the Olympics for so long I think it would be dumb to take it out. I do see the point how it would be unfair if one person judges the performance one way and another judge thinks otherwise but the person is going to end up with whoever is judging's score. I researched that there are 9 judges for each figure skating event which is a lot, however I think maybe if there were more judges you could get a more accurate score and be sure that you were avoiding bias to certain countries. It would probably take a lot more funding but if there was 20 judges for example the athlete could feel better about their score because there was so many perspectives on it.
ReplyDeleteI agree that it would be really upsetting if an athlete was getting a low score because a judge had something against them and it would be totally unfair to them, however there is no exact proof that the judges have something against the athlete so it's not really fair to say that, it could just be their opinion on the performance, that is why if there were an abundance of judges for each event it could eliminate the bias. An example of somewhere else this happens could be with dancing as I used to do a lot of dance competitions and there would be 4 judges, one judge could feel the performance deserved an 81 while one could feel it deserved an 85 because it is somewhat a matter of opinion and perspective. I do see the unfairness in this however I don't think figure skating should be taken out of the Olympics just because of a difference of opinions.
Here is an article explaining the scoring system for figure skating in the Olympics and how there are only 9 judges per event http://m.dummies.com/how-to/content/the-figure-skating-competitions-at-the-winter-olym.html
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DeleteI agree with Julia. I don't think that a sport as established as Figure skating should be taken out of the Olympics because the judges were able to be bribed by someone else. I think that the judges should be held highly accountable for the disgrace. They have dishonoured their own country, and themselves. Their motifs are clearly tainted. In my opinion, the judges should not only be people with experience in the sport, but people who enjoy watching the performances for the love of the sport, and who feel that they have an impact on the fairness of the awards. If they were an athlete themselves, they would know how much work the skaters put into the routines, and know that to deduct anyone’s score for a false purpose would just be cruel.
DeleteI also think rather than removing the sport they should hold the "bribers" publicly accountable for their actions.
If there were more judges personal preferences would be less apparent in the scores, but there would still be just as much potential for bribing. A better option might be an oath, an oath to a higher authority, just as if they were testifying, and the serious consequences too.
after watching the figure skating finals today i do think maybe they should scan the judges more carefully. of course it could be somewhat bias but i honestly believe along with many others that canadas pair skated the best today and still did not get the gold.
ReplyDeleteI can't help but think about how the scoring allows for the bias to take place in the first place, for example in ski jumping the highest and lowest marks are tossed out and only the middle scores are accredited to the actual mark. This would prevent a single country to be able to affect the outcome of a score.
DeleteThis is my weekly post...
ReplyDeleteThe Olympics is a time where the world comes together as one, even though we are competing against one another, it is a nice worldly tradition. Just like the events. I feel if we took out the events with the judges it would not be the same. Even though the winnings and scoring may not be fair.
Bias is a huge problem that we seem to face in everyday life. Just like we have been learning in class this week. It is so hard to change people's views and opinions. To stop this type of bias from happening is going to take many years. A step towards that is maybe having the judges unaware of who exactly is competing or who they are representing. They could also have extremely strict guidelines and be watched over very carefully. I don't think this will completely take bias out of the picture but this could be a step forward to it.
I understand that Canada may be upset about the scoring with the skating, for many believe that the Canadians deserved the gold. I have never really competed in something where I get scored on but if something like this happened to me where I knew and believed that I deserved it more than the person who did win I would probably at first be very angry and upset but after I would have to except that I did my best and that is all I can do. Just like the Canadian skaters said in the article about how they enjoyed competing and are not upset by the scoring but by the fact they felt the could have done better.
There is even a film based on the the judging scheme but in gymnastics called "Stick It". It showed the problems that the gymnasts have to face with bias judges. It is quite interesting how they stopped the bias from happening. So I believe this does happen in many other competitive activities.
My sources are:
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10000872396390443477104577551253521597214
I've also seen the movie "Stick It", Maddie and it actually did come in mind when I was reading this article! The struggles they endured due to biased judges does ring pretty true to reality. Great example!
DeleteI agree Maddie! Bias will always be an underlying issue in these sports and needs to be addressed. Stick it was a great example too! (Great movie!) at the same time I don't think hiding which country the athletes are representing is a good idea. The point of the Olympics is to bring countries together and share a sense of pride for your country. I can't help feeling like hiding which country you're from goes against that point.
DeleteThis is my post for the week:
ReplyDeleteI chose this post because I just recently watched Canadians Tessa Virtue and Scott Moir perform a truly beautiful routine in Sochi. Later, I figure out their score was well below their personal best and below the American’s score. As I did more research, I learned that the skaters are judged in many disciplines. The category they scored the weakest in was the Finnstep. The controversial part about this is that after the scores were announced, one of the inventors of the Finnstep, Petri Kokko tweeted: “I don’t understand the judging in #icedancing. @Virtue_Moir should be leading in my honest opinion.” Many thought they were judged so harshly because the United States had never won a medal in this event.
As an athlete, I would feel completely cheated if I came second because certain judges were biased. At the same time, I see this in many other things other than sports. For example, I often watch the show America’s Got Talent and see people get kicked off even though their talent is much more superior. Most of the time this is because of their good looks or great back story and is incredibly unfair. The show is called Americas Got Talent, not Americas Got Nice Hair and should be judged solely on talent.
In my honest opinion, I don’t think these judged sports should be thrown out of the Olympics. These athletes work very hard in their given sport and deserve the chance to showcase their talents. At the same time, I think there should be better methods to choose the judges. Personally, I think the Olympic committee should chose judges from countries that are not competing in the sport and have no ties to the countries competing, by holding an interview process. If need be, they can teach these individuals how to judge the sport before the games. This way, these judges will not be tempted to score certain countries higher.
Here is the article about the Canadians being underscored:
http://www.thestar.com/sports/sochi2014/figureskating/2014/02/16/tessa_virtue_scott_moir_second_after_olympic_ice_dance_short_program.html
I hope this post is not too long. I really tried to make it as short as I could.
DeleteHere is the second article I used: http://www.canada.com/olympics/columns/blatchford-tessa-virtue-and-scott-moirs-olympic-silver-medal-scores-a-part-of-the-bizarre-game-of-ice-dance
DeleteThis is is my weekly post :)
ReplyDeleteWell I just watched Virtue and Moir's performance and in my opinion they deserved gold more than the Americans. Despite their minor flaws, Tessa and Scott's ice dance was outstanding to say the least.
I myself have never competed in a sport that involved judges but I can only imagine how I would feel if I trained for an entire year only to find out that my partner and I lost our well deserved gold Olympic medal on a count of bribery. The fact that Olympic judges even entertain the idea of accepting money in exchange for competition rigging is just awful, I mean don't they see how hard some of those athletes train and push themselves everyday just to be there?
For years now Canada's ice dancers have recieved low scores in the grande prix even when it is clear that they deserved much better.
I don't think that sports with judges should be taken out of the Olympics completely because they are apart of our culture and have been an important aspect in the games for many years. Athletes deserve the chance to show their amazing talents with or without judges.
I feel judge tampering can be prevented by maybe having more non bias judges like 15 or 20 like Julia said. Or perhaps judges will be chosen the night before an event or not told what event they'll be judging until the actual event begins. This way athletes will have a fair shot and judges will be forced to play fairly.
Judge tampering happens in many competitions such as music recitals, sporting events, dance competitions etc. Usually whoever has the most money or influence wins despite their performance. This saddens me because it goes against what sports and competitions are about. They are meant to show case and fairly decide which performer worked the hardest or has the most talent. A raw and true representation and judgement of a person's talents. It's time to bring back the true nature of competitions. When people work as hard as they do for the Olympics I don't think there should be any chance in cheating or bribery. The Olympic committee needs to find a way to end judge tampering before it's too late and before it jeopardizes ice skating completely.
http://www.researchomatic.com/Sports-Bribery-121836.html
Here's a link to explain sport bribery in the USA !
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ReplyDeleteThis is my weekly post:
ReplyDeleteI think for as long as they’ve been established, athletics that require judges like figure skating and competitive dance have been questioned of their sport status. Many find it to be unfair that the deciding factor of who wins relies solely on the opinions of critics whereas majority of sports establish their winner through tangible determines like how many touchdowns they scored or the superior race time they’ve earned – influences that can’t be disputed nor questioned.
It’s even more troubling for these disbelievers because these judges – although probably very poised and knowledgeable with the context of the sport – aren’t always as impartial as they’re anticipated to be. They do tend to hold a certain bias and despite whether it’s for personal or political reasons – it can greatly impact the way they mark the competitors. I don’t know whether the speculations of the judges being potentially bribed in order to minimize the scores they reward to Canada is the full truth but one thing’s for sure; favoritism seems to be a common occurrence in this sort of sport.
I like to compare earning scores in the Olympics towards gaining marks in classes like math or history viruses a course like English or one that involves writing. Math is kind of like hockey – the results are pretty much indisputable. You either win because you’ve scored the most goals or you don’t just like you either get the right answer to a math problem or you get the wrong one. You could argue that you could additionally earn marks for the journey up to figuring out your final answer but all in all, it’s a pretty definite marking process. Figure skating, on the other hand, is critiqued closer to the way an English teacher might grade an essay. The grading tactic isn’t so black or white. Since we now have a unique individual analyzing this piece of work – the score heavily depends on their personal views and preferences, which makes it a whole lot easier for them to be held guilty for being biased.
I once had a teacher say that to avoid marking papers unfairly, she’d hide the name of the writer from herself. Although, it would be pretty far fetch to say the least if we were to disguise our athletes from the country they’re representing when they go out onto the ice – I do think that this sort of mindset is something we should take into account. I think we should strive harder to prioritize fairness and dismiss as much bias as we can – even if it’s inevitable.
Bias is everywhere though and it’s something we need to recognize. Even that article could be seen as biased since it had been published by the Toronto Star – a very popular Canadian news source. Even though we can’t get rid of it entirely, we should educate ourselves in order to think more critically. Instead of terminating a judged sport like figure skating – a much better solution would just be to prioritize leveling the playing field so everyone gets an equal shot at bringing home a medal for their country.
http://www.eurodressage.com/equestrian/2010/11/04/natural-bias-hidden-controversy-judging-sports
http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2014/02/figure-skating-hopelessly-corrupt
Kayla lots of information here but try to be more concise.
Deletethis is my post.
ReplyDeletei saw a lot about this on the news and i was shocked that judges for the olympics could be bought over so easily. i feel that it is unfair for all of the other athleetes that train everyday and work so had to qualify for the games just for it to not really matter because it is rigged anyways. im suprised that they were able to go through with this because the Olympics should not be about politics and buying over the judges it should be about who can preform and show their skill level with a fair chance to get the medals. furthermore i feel that there should be more thought put into who is judging. maybe they should have all of the countries that dont attend winter olympics come and judge so that it is always a fair competition .http://www.sportingnews.com/olympics/story/2014-02-17/2014-sochi-olympics-ice-dancing-joins-usa-vs-canada-rivalry